An email tete’-a-tete’ between myself and some family members.

An email tete’-a-tete’ between myself and some fam­ily members.

I received an email that began as a for­ward from some­one else regard­ing Barak Obama ema­ci­at­ing the mil­i­tary and turn­ing Amer­ica into a third-rate nation. My reply to that email and the devolv­ing, or evolv­ing, rhetoric which ensued between myself and a few fam­ily mem­bers ended up esca­lat­ing to phone calls, hys­te­ria, and attempted sham­ing. Who those fam­ily mem­bers are shall remain for only them to know, but I can assure you that despite the abun­dant infor­ma­tion I have posted regard­ing my phi­los­o­phy and opin­ions, it is obvi­ous nobody took the time to under­stand my posi­tion, but rather to spout rhetoric, hyper­bole, and emo­tion. So it begins…..

—– Orig­i­nal Message —–

See url below.

c–

You all HAVE to see this! God help us all if this idiot gets elected.

~Geoff

Please send this to every­one you know TODAY as it will be pulled off the air soon. Here Obama reveals his true inten­tions to make the US a third rate nation – vul­ner­a­ble to attack by every rogue nation on the earth.

This is an unin­ter­rupted 51-second video of Obama speak­ing; he’s telling us exactly what he will do to the military…watch it before this too is removed off the web site.

Pass it on…the USA needs a Wake-up call.

http://www.macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/02/27/obama-plans-to-disarm-america

This is absolutely shock­ing & rep­re­hen­si­ble. He plans to uni­lat­er­ally dis­arm our nation.The ques­tion is… for what? And more specif­i­cally, for whom ?!!!!!!!!

MY REPLY

First, Amer­ica is already a third-rate nation as evi­denced by our aca­d­e­mic inep­ti­tude com­pared to other nations, our being the world’s largest importer of con­sumer goods, and our largely illit­er­ate mid­dle class. We are just a more pol­ished turd.

Sec­ond, Amer­ica has done much to cre­ate, fund, arm, and inspire many of the rogue nations that now, allegedly “threaten” us.

Third, Amer­ica is one of the largest arms deal­ers in the world who spreads the poten­tial threat around to jus­tify our “alleged” need for a stronger, more impe­ri­al­is­tic military.

Fourth, the mil­i­tary has already exceeded its Con­sti­tu­tional pur­pose and is essen­tially a mer­ce­nary force used in the pur­suit of sub­du­ing the labor, resources, and economies of other nations at the behest of sali­vat­ing cor­po­rate bene­fac­tors who exist by way of inces­tu­ous rela­tions with that (not yours, mine, or anybody’s but their own) gov­ern­ment, called the United States.

The present polit­i­cal doc­trine under which this gov­ern­ment now oper­ates implies all human­ity is vile, cor­rupt, and vio­lent; so it is by way of the God-given man­date of an arti­fi­cial entity called gov­ern­ment act­ing under the tacit, igno­rant direc­tion of the vol­un­tar­ily enslaved inhab­i­tants thereof to kill every­body who does not par­rot the same fal­la­cious reasoning.

I agree with one of the respon­ders on the YouTube site who thinks Obama won’t live through his term. IF, there is not another “ter­ror­ist” attack that causes mar­tial law to be imposed, thereby sus­pend­ing all Con­sti­tu­tional gov­ern­ment, includ­ing elec­tions, then Obama will be elected pres­i­dent with Vice-Hillary. He will be assas­si­nated some time there­after, which will result in the clos­est thing to civil war or more aptly class/race war, com­pounded with unaf­ford­able gas prices (cour­tesy Bush-driven third-world insta­bil­ity), soar­ing food prices and short­ages (cour­tesy the worth­less fed­eral script called “Dol­lars” and our anti-humanitarian, oppres­sive, bru­tal, and weapons-dealing mis­an­thropic brethren, China, no longer sup­port­ing our debt by buy­ing worth­less T-bills for cor­po­rate favoritism). Look then for the beloved mil­i­tary to tram­ple posse comi­ta­tus and assume the role of your new keep­ers. Soon there­after, the NAFTA umbil­i­cal high­way giv­ing birth to the mal­formed com­mer­cial body con­sist­ing of Mex­ico, U.S., and Canada, will pump com­mer­cial blood through the paved veins tra­vers­ing for­merly sov­er­eign states and essen­tially dis­solve Amer­ica into a giant hemispherical-commercial behemoth.

Look for the total deval­u­a­tion of the funny-money cur­rency called Fed­eral Reserve Notes and the new fiat sav­ior for all your mate­ri­al­is­tic needs, the Amero, to be intro­duced as a move towards a one world gov­ern­ment takes one small step for man, and one giant leap for corporate-kind.

Ask your­selves this, for those of the arm­chair Chris­t­ian per­sua­sion, who would Jesus nuke?

Since I am not a United States Cit­i­zen, don’t vote, am not a mem­ber of a polit­i­cal body, am not com­plicit in lend­ing my energy, labor, or con­sent to vio­lence, igno­rance, or fear (long-hand for gov­ern­ment) then I will sit on the side­lines and watch the dis­so­lu­tion of another failed fal­lacy and con­trivance of man and his ongo­ing pur­suit to con­trol, enslave, and rule over his fellow-man.

My hands and con­science are clean. Since peo­ple are averse to rea­son and instead opt for the fat, dumb, happy, hedo­nis­tic life pur­chased with the sweat of oth­ers, and who believe that man can make the life their Cre­ator has pro­vided any­thing other than it is, some­times hard, some­times fright­en­ing, some­times ugly, but at all times theirs, then let them suf­fer under the hand of man to whom they’ve made them­selves beholden.

I apol­o­gize, not for the rant, but for the length (I could have been more con­cise), but as long as peo­ple look to insti­tu­tions that foment lies, vio­lence, and fear, they will get what they deserve; viz., lied to, beaten, and frightened.

I appar­ently do not believe in God, for God has no flag, no army, has no polit­i­cal oppo­si­tion, requires me not to sur­ren­der any of my rights or lib­er­ties in order to pro­tect me, demands no alle­giance, and fears no other aggress­ing god com­ing to harm me. What I believe in, I do not know, because if this is a nation of God-fearing, right­eous, moral peo­ple then they sure have a way of resort­ing to immoral and unright­eous actions for secur­ing their lib­er­ties, viz., per­sist­ing to vote for men who will kill as their proxy. My con­science won’t allow it.

BTW, this is not an attack or com­men­tary on anybody’s beliefs or char­ac­ter, in par­tic­u­lar, but rather a ret­ro­spec­tive com­men­tary on where I have come from and now find myself; espe­cially when con­fronted with mes­sages con­tain­ing alarmist mes­sages about pre­serv­ing an insti­tu­tion designed to kill with­out ques­tion and an indus­try designed to facil­i­tate the means and where­withal to do it more effi­ciently and impersonally.

Every war should be fought with spoons and only by the polit­i­cal lead­ers of those war­ring nations. Let them invest them­selves in wrench­ing the life from their enemy while the peo­ple live their lives peace­ably and pros­per­ously. Good riddance!

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 1

Thanks for that happy pick-me-up, Miss Sun­shine! When our ene­mies do away with their weapons and arm up with spoons, then and only then will I be in favor of dis­arm­ing (but only after we stock­pile a poop-load of forks) Peace out.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 2

“Peace-out”…what kind of left­ist talk is that? John McCain would dis­own you!

MY REPLY

How do you define a “enemy”? Is it an indi­vid­ual who wishes to harm or kill you? Your nation abounds with such beings. Is it another body of peo­ple who seek to harm or kill you? Again, look to your leg­is­la­tures, police, prison sys­tems (notwith­stand­ing con­trived jus­ti­fi­ca­tions as “break­ing the law”, of which there is no such trans­gres­sion absent a artic­u­la­ble and obvi­ous threat to indi­vid­ual life or prop­erty). Or, are ene­mies actu­ally other gov­ern­ments that take excep­tion with our gov­ern­ment for the crimes it has per­pe­trated abroad for its own pur­poses? I have yet to hear of a war fought by nations of peo­ples against other nations of peo­ples where gov­ern­ment was not involved. My ene­mies are within arm’s reach; not liv­ing in some far off land seething over our pop-driven, corporate-branded, politically-infested, techno-violent-prurient cul­ture. I think many count them­selves lucky to not be so super­fi­cial. How do you rec­on­cile fear­ing what you define as an “enemy” when your gov­ern­ment courts, frat­er­nizes, incites, and cop­u­lates with? So, again I ask, define this “enemy”.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 1

En-e-my – noun – 1. Crazy towel heads who fly planes into our build­ings and the coun­tries who har­bor and sup­port said crazy towel heads. 2. Rosie O’Donnell

MY REPLY

Crazy towel-heads were Saudi. Some of the alleged “towel-heads” who flew planes so expertly into someone’s build­ings are still alive (they were not YOUR build­ings). Crazy towel-head Bin Laden had no direct involve­ment with the Sept. 11 attacks (Google FBI mak­ing such state­ment). Rosie O’Donnel is a CIA oper­a­tive. Enemy = U.S.A. – U.S.A. – U.S.A……

Abol­ish the U.S. gov­ern­ment and see what hap­pens. I would rather be hon­estly invaded by ene­mies with­out than to be sold into sub­ju­ga­tion by the ene­mies within. The worst thing that can hap­pen is you will die. Just refuse to fol­low the orders of a taser-packin’ so-called “offi­cer” and you’ll meet the same fate, but it will be within depart­men­tal pol­icy so you have no rea­son to complain.

Remem­ber, we are free………….so long as we obey.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 3

I’m no war mon­ger. But if wars were never fought, we wouldn’t have west­ern civ­i­liza­tion as you know it. You wouldn’t be liv­ing in a free coun­try (I know you don’t think Amer­ica is one, but try liv­ing in North Korea), and you wouldn’t have the lux­ury of going for your bike rides (you’d likely be too mal­nour­ished to do so), and prob­a­bly wouldn’t have the com­puter you’re using, which came about from the entre­pre­neur­ial spirit born of a free mar­ket, cap­i­tal­is­tic society.

Wars were fought in bib­li­cal times, and God was often cred­ited with help­ing one nation con­quer another. Obama wants to sit down for a tea talk with a nut that denies the Holo­caust and wants to wipe Isreal off the face of the globe. But why should that sur­prise any­one? He’s good bud­dies with a cou­ple that bombed our pen­ta­gon and sent pipe bombs to police stations.

I ask this ques­tion seri­ously… if Amer­ica is the rot­ten, cor­rupt, impe­ri­al­is­tic behe­moth you feel it is, why don’t you move to a “bet­ter” coun­try void of all the evils we pos­sess? Not that I want you to leave, but the ques­tion begs to be asked, based on how you feel.

MY REPLY

First, you can’t say with cer­tainty that what we have can be attrib­ut­able to the capri­cious tak­ing of life, both guilty and inno­cent, if one is to accept the flawed rea­son­ing that man is capa­ble of mak­ing such deter­mi­na­tions. What other peo­ple define as free does not nec­es­sar­ily com­port with what I deter­mine free­dom to be for me. I am not bound to accept what other peo­ple define or deter­mine to be accept­able or prefer­able. Polit­i­cal rel­a­tivism does not make a free coun­try out of that which some­one else per­ceives as a threat to lib­erty. Bike rides, cor­pu­lence, and mate­ri­al­ism does not define a free nation, or a free man. Those things can­not also be proven to derive from a free-market or cap­i­tal­is­tic soci­ety since there is abun­dant evi­dence that shows we have a “rel­a­tively free mar­ket” and “quasi-capitalistic” soci­ety. If some­thing is rel­a­tively or quasi then it is not absolutely, which means there is con­trol being exer­cised by arbi­trary power not of the soci­ety itself.

Wars have been ini­ti­ated by reli­gion, gov­ern­ment, and other con­trivances used by men to con­trol other men. Just because anec­do­tal hearsay claims to derive jus­ti­fi­ca­tion for exer­cis­ing vio­lence over oth­ers as com­ing from God, doesn’t make it so. Don’t impugn Obama for choos­ing to engage in a dia­logue over arbi­trary vio­lence. This “nut” may deny the holo­caust, but other nuts in this gov­ern­ment deny the true rea­sons for many of the mil­i­tary pur­suits that have died the rivers and land red with blood (Gulf of Tonkin, sink­ing of the Lusi­ta­nia, Pearl Har­bor, Project North­woods, Korean War, Gulf War….etc…). So what if some­one wants to wipe Israel off the face of the globe. When did we con­script our chil­dren to fight for Israel. Maybe Israel has its own sins to account for.

There is no con­clu­sive proof (notwith­stand­ing fab­ri­cated and con­ve­nient proof by way of gov­ern­ment con­trolled pro­pa­ganda out­lets) that this “nut” had any­thing to do with THEIR pen­ta­gon or police stations.

My feel­ings about “Amer­ica” being, or more aptly rep­re­sent­ing a rot­ten, cor­rupt, impe­ri­al­is­tic, behe­moth causes no harm, nor has any impact upon any­body unless they allow them to. Amer­ica is a fan­tasy and con­struct. It does not exist. It is what those who acknowl­edge it say it is. I have a right to live any­where on this planet I choose and to crit­i­cize any­thing I see fit. I don’t live in Amer­ica. Oth­ers may attempt to bind me to that notion, but their real­ity is not nec­es­sar­ily mine. Amer­ica is a bas­tardiza­tion of cor­rupt polit­i­cal power and per­va­sive igno­rance. Amer­ica will soon be an amal­ga­ma­tion of political/corporate enti­ties com­prised of Mex­ico and Canada. There is noth­ing you can do about that. Is Amer­ica an amor­phous abstrac­tion sub­ject to the manip­u­la­tive hands of usurpers who define it for all to be forced to swal­low? I do not agree or accept what oth­ers define Amer­ica to be. It is tired, lazy, igno­rant, vio­lent, cor­rupt, and greedy. I choose to not be a part of that real­ity. Amaz­ingly enough, even after I remove myself from that fan­tasy, I still per­sist by the grace of my Creator.

I will live where I choose by what­ever rules I deem fit for my hap­pi­ness and secu­rity. Being amongst evil does noth­ing to me. I have already moved out of “this coun­try” since a coun­try is all make believe any­way. I am per­fectly capa­ble of liv­ing my life with­out sub­mit­ting myself to the evil ways of other men who don’t serve to pro­tect me in any­way not already pro­vided by myself (don’t devi­ate to argu­ments about paved roads, water, sewer….etc.; not the sole domain of gov­ern­ments or “coun­tries”). I have dis­cov­ered too many lies, deaths, and injus­tices that orig­i­nate with the power of gov­ern­ment. It is some­thing I can just accept as being a req­ui­site for a moral or happy life. Life, men, and this world being what it is; I am per­fectly capa­ble and ready to act accord­ing to the dic­tates of my con­science and suf­fer what­ever earthly con­se­quences may attach. Since all men have free-will, and are account­able for their actions in this tem­po­rary life, I refuse to act neg­li­gently or under the direc­tion of oth­ers who have no invest­ment in my spir­i­tu­al­ity; and will there­fore act accord­ingly and dis­avow all which is incon­gru­ous with my under­stand­ing and reason.

There is no spoon.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 3

“There is no con­clu­sive proof (notwith­stand­ing fab­ri­cated and con­ve­nient proof by way of gov­ern­ment con­trolled pro­pa­ganda out­lets) that this “nut” had any­thing to do with THEIR pen­ta­gon or police stations” …..

The “nut”, being William Ayers, a mem­ber of the Weather Under­ground, and a friend of Barack Hus­sein Obama’s, ADMITTED to bomb­ing a New York police sta­tions, the Capi­tol Build­ing, and the Pen­ta­gon. Barack Obama launched his Illi­nois sen­ate cam­paign at his house. ‘Gov­ern­ment con­trolled pro­pa­ganda’ has noth­ing to do with it. Tell me who your friends are….

And stop with the “I don’t live in Amer­ica” philo­soph­i­cal stuff. The point I was mak­ing about “why not leave?” is just that — if this place is so cor­rupt, evil, etc., why choose to live here? It must be because it is bet­ter than any­place else in the world. No intel­li­gent, ratio­nal per­son would choose to live in a hor­ri­ble place when they had a world of other options. You wax ad nau­seum about every pos­si­ble thing you per­ceive to be wrong with Amer­ica. There must be more things you like about it than you dis­like, or else you wouldn’t be here. That’s all I’m saying.

By the way, name for me one coun­try, just one, that has done as much to help other coun­tries in need, as this one. Just do so with­out list­ing a litany of all the wrongs you think we’ve done. I dare you. Name one coun­try that has given more time, blood and money than Amer­ica, to help other coun­tries. I won’t hold my breath….

MY REPLY

Regard­less, I have seen pic­tures of Don­ald Rums­feld with Sad­dam Hus­sein as well. How is Obama any dif­fer­ent? That proves noth­ing other than those serv­ing this gov­ern­ment can­not be trusted.

Why should I dis­pense with the “philo­soph­i­cal stuff” as you put it? Am I required to buy into every­one else’s per­pet­ual hearsay? The point I was mak­ing is that there is no place that is evil, it is evil peo­ple in those places. I can live any­where and not be affected by any­one else’s actions, unless directly acted upon me; and even then those only affect my body. I live here for con­ve­nience and out of cus­tom and habit. It is a choice. There are things about this land that I love. There are things about peo­ple that I love and hate. Intel­lec­tual lazi­ness and moral apa­thy are amongst the things I hate. Phi­los­o­phy is a crit­i­cal search for the truth. If you lis­ten to other peo­ple with­out crit­i­cal inspec­tion or dis­cov­ery then you never find the truth. Why should peo­ple just accept some­thing because it is bet­ter than an alter­na­tive when it could be bet­ter; or more pre­cisely said, the peo­ple could be bet­ter. Coun­tries don’t help other coun­tries. Peo­ple help other peo­ple. You are say­ing that crim­i­nals who live in Amer­ica and rape, kill, and pay taxes are just as deserv­ing a pat on the back because the taxes paid go to help other coun­tries, there­fore bestow­ing them with some of the phil­an­thropic credit. If not, then how can any­body who does not directly con­tribute to the bet­ter­ment of the human con­di­tion claim their supe­rior moral­ity merely by way of their resid­ing on the land called a place that has other peo­ple act­ing in its name with the resources of its people?

Show me how a coun­try can do any­thing when it is not an ani­mate thing, but merely a name for a polit­i­cal soci­ety of indi­vid­u­als who have dif­fer­ing opin­ions, beliefs, philoso­phies, and morals. It is insane to assign human attrib­utes to an arti­fi­cial entity. If peo­ple have it within their power to charge gov­ern­ment to do for them then the peo­ple have the power to do it them­selves. I can name prob­a­bly a dozen coun­tries that have not con­tributed to so many deaths as the United States. I can name over a hun­dred that have not used nuclear weapons against civil­ian pop­u­la­tions. I can name over a hun­dred that has a lower per­cent­age of its pop­u­la­tion incar­cer­ated for non-violent offenses. It is more hon­est to address the inequities and injus­tices than to keep repeat­ing pleas­ant plat­i­tudes in denial. Why the tena­cious cling­ing to some­thing not of your doing? Why fer­vently defend some­thing that grabs the glory and good­ness result­ing from the actions of peo­ple, and use it as a jus­ti­fi­ca­tion for its own power? Why choose to serve a man-made fic­tion that causes much harm, and some good, but would be best if abol­ished and left to the whim of soci­ety? God can’t, or won’t, stop poverty, killing, or inequal­ity so what makes peo­ple think gov­ern­ment is the answer to society’s prob­lems? It is up to each indi­vid­ual to rea­son and under­stand for them­selves. As long as peo­ple adopt gov­ern­ment as their con­science and arti­fi­cial rea­son we will con­tinue to live, and suf­fer, accordingly.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 3

Exactly, it is the peo­ple of a coun­try that is either good or bad. And peo­ple are the gov­ern­ment. It is our gov­ern­ment that has more often gone to the defense and aid of other coun­tries’ peo­ple, often times with­out any ben­e­fit what­so­ever, and often to our own human and eco­nom­i­cal detriment.

>”I can name over a hun­dred (coun­tries) that have not used nuclear weapons against civil­ian pop­u­la­tions” <… What ?! Heck, name more than 10 coun­tries that even HAVE nuclear weapons capa­bil­i­ties. That’s like me say­ing I can name a hun­dred coun­tries that chose not to put a man on the moon. We used them to end a war and save hun­dreds of thou­sands of lives. Do you seri­ously think that would be the basis for Iran or Iraq?

How is Obama dif­fer­ent from Rums­feld? Well, for starters, Sad­dam Hus­sein had not bombed our own gov­ern­ment at the time, and then said he wish he had done more.

You defend your con­tin­ual habi­ta­tion of Amer­ica on grounds of con­ve­nience, cus­tom, and habit, but those are weak excuses for con­tin­u­ing to dwell in a land whose peo­ple, through their gov­ern­ment, as you would say, sup­port evil acts, and are too stu­pid to elect the lib­er­tar­ian party to head the exec­u­tive branch of gov­ern­ment, as you would like to see done. What I sus­pect by your actions, or inac­tion, is that you ulti­mately see more redeemable qual­i­ties in our coun­try than bad. If not, your high sense of moral­ity and ideals would com­pel you to for­sake con­ve­nience and habit in exchange for a coun­try whose peo­ple do not elect cor­rupt peo­ple to act on their behalf. I think the answer is that you deep down know, just like the thou­sands who try to gain access to Amer­ica every year, that there is not a bet­ter place in the world to live. If this were not the case, you would not betray your ideals and stay here.

MY REPLY

“Exactly, it is the peo­ple of a coun­try that is either good or bad.” – — No. It is peo­ple. Period. There is no dif­fer­ence between a moral Amer­i­can and a moral French­man. If you were blind­folded and trans­ported to another coun­try where the sur­round­ings resem­bled where you live in Amer­ica and you were told that out­side aggres­sors were com­ing to invade your coun­try you would prob­a­bly, hope­fully, fight to defend it. In doing so you would believe you were defend­ing your home in Amer­ica, but were in real­ity in a rural part of com­mu­nist China. You would then be fight­ing for a plot of soil you, in your mind, believed to be your beloved Amer­ica, but was in real­ity the soil of a com­mu­nist nation. Coun­tries are fic­tions. There is noth­ing more just or moral about this part of the north­ern hemi­sphere than any place else on the globe.

“And peo­ple are the gov­ern­ment.” – — No. Peo­ple are not the gov­ern­ment. Gov­ern­ment is a fic­tion. Peo­ple cre­ate it. Peo­ple can­not cre­ate peo­ple. The gov­ern­ment is a role which is pop­u­lated by actors appointed by a largely igno­rant con­sent­ing gov­erned. How can a liv­ing thing become a fic­ti­tious inan­i­mate entity? Gov­ern­ment can be abol­ished and cre­ated with the stroke of a pen. Try doing that with flesh and blood. The gov­ern­ment is sup­posed to be “of the peo­ple”, mean­ing deriv­ing from the will of the free inhab­i­tants thereof, but it is not the peo­ple. When the actors who exe­cute their roles in gov­ern­ment retire to their abodes they cease to be those actors and become peo­ple again. A mayor is not a mayor when he is at his fire­side. A pres­i­dent is not a pres­i­dent when he is with fam­ily. Only when serv­ing in the role defined are they those actors.

“It is our gov­ern­ment that has more often gone to the defense and aid of other coun­tries’ peo­ple, often times with­out any ben­e­fit what­so­ever, and often to our own human and eco­nom­i­cal detri­ment.” – — Whose gov­ern­ment? Surely not yours or mine. What makes it yours? Did you draft the doc­u­ments that breathe life into it? Did you nego­ti­ate the treaties with other nations that become the law of the land? Did you per­son­ally elect those who sit in leg­isla­tive con­trol over your life and every­body else’s? Just because you are allowed to mosey to the polling place and punch a card or touch a screen does not make this gov­ern­ment account­able to you or any­body else. Try remov­ing those in gov­ern­ment who pass leg­is­la­tion that con­tra­dicts your con­science. Try with­hold­ing your money (FRN’s) from a gov­ern­ment that gives it to other gov­ern­ments that engage in atroc­i­ties. Try exer­cis­ing your pre­rog­a­tive to reign in an out of con­trol ser­vant and you will quickly see just how account­able your gov­ern­ment is. That state­ment is another plat­i­tude par­roted by the igno­rant to quell their inse­cu­ri­ties about being kept in a gilded cage.

“What ?! Heck, name more than 10 coun­tries that even HAVE nuclear weapons capa­bil­i­ties. That’s like me say­ing I can name a hun­dred coun­tries that chose not to put a man on the moon. We used them to end a war and save hun­dreds of thou­sands of lives. Do you seri­ously think that would be the basis for Iran or Iraq?” – — Numer­i­cal seman­tics notwith­stand­ing, we are the only nuclear power who used that weapon on civil­ians to end a war we helped insti­gate. If the ends jus­tify the means then we are jus­ti­fied in nuk­ing any nation that the gov­ern­ment deems a threat. More polit­i­cal para­noia and delusion.

“How is Obama dif­fer­ent from Rums­feld? Well, for starters, Sad­dam Hus­sein had not bombed our own gov­ern­ment at the time, and then said he wish he had done more.” – — No. Sad­dam gassed his own peo­ple with weapons pro­vided by the United States with the know­ing that he was going to use them on the Kurds. It was done under the pre­tense that he would use them on Iran, which whom he was war­ring, but his ire turned to the Kurds as well, and our gov­ern­ment said that as long as he didn’t use them on domes­tic pop­u­la­tions it was alright. How­ever, he didn’t deem the Kurds to be part of his domes­tic population.

“You defend your con­tin­ual habi­ta­tion of Amer­ica on grounds of con­ve­nience, cus­tom, and habit, but those are weak excuses for con­tin­u­ing to dwell in a land whose peo­ple, through their gov­ern­ment, as you would say, sup­port evil acts, and are too stu­pid to elect the lib­er­tar­ian party to head the exec­u­tive branch of gov­ern­ment, as you would like to see done.” – — My rea­sons for doing any­thing are my rea­sons and not sub­ject to out­side inter­pre­ta­tion. Where I dwell, and amongst whom I dwell, are of no con­se­quence to my actions, con­science, or morals. I don’t hold peo­ple out to be stu­pid for not vot­ing lib­er­tar­ian, but I do hold peo­ple out as igno­rant for con­tin­u­ing to vote; believ­ing that gov­ern­ment and pol­i­tics is the answer to any of society’s problems.

“What I sus­pect by your actions, or inac­tion, is that you ulti­mately see more redeemable qual­i­ties in our coun­try than bad.” – — No. I see oppor­tu­ni­ties with like-minded peo­ple, of which there is an abun­dance, and a land where I will live under my own terms and use what my Cre­ator has pro­vided; damn any man or entity who tries to com­pel my obe­di­ence or alle­giance in con­tra­dic­tion to my free will.

“If not, your high sense of moral­ity and ideals would com­pel you to for­sake con­ve­nience and habit in exchange for a coun­try whose peo­ple do not elect cor­rupt peo­ple to act on their behalf.” – — Maybe your sense of moral­ity and ideals would com­pel such actions, but I don’t believe any­one has been imbued with the author­ity or insight to gauge my actions as pred­i­cated by an erro­neous inter­pre­ta­tion of my ideals. I have as much a right to live where I choose as any man. I have as much a right to iden­tify, address, and com­mu­ni­cate my feel­ings about what I per­ceive the world to be as expe­ri­enced through the fil­ter of my rea­son and under­stand­ing. I do not encum­ber myself with the fail­ings and inequities of oth­ers who choose not to invest them­selves in the con­se­quences of their lives. Entrust­ing other men with deci­sions of life and death that require your tacit or overt con­sent to facil­i­tate is not a patri­otic or moral act. It is an abdi­ca­tion of respon­si­bil­ity that assigns as much cul­pa­bil­ity upon the gov­erned as it does the despot.

“I think the answer is that you deep down know, just like the thou­sands who try to gain access to Amer­ica every year, that there is not a bet­ter place in the world to live. If this were not the case, you would not betray your ideals and stay here.” – — There are plenty of places in the world that are bet­ter to live, depend­ing on how you cri­tique and dif­fer­en­ti­ate what is bet­ter for whom. If you mean polit­i­cally, then you can’t speak for me. There are real­i­ties which pre­clude me from uproot­ing my life and aban­don­ing my respon­si­bil­i­ties in favor of a geo­graphic Xanadu. It is my rela­tion­ships with peo­ple and finan­cial con­sid­er­a­tions which induce me to remain here. Should the ben­e­fits become out­weighed by the neg­a­tive I can assure you I would leave in a heart­beat. It is also my pre­rog­a­tive to live my life on my terms; even in defi­ance of those who may seek to com­pel my obe­di­ence and alle­giance, and reach out to oth­ers who can rec­og­nize the col­lec­tive aban­don­ment of indi­vid­ual respon­si­bil­ity and the trend towards col­lec­tivism, impe­ri­al­ism, cor­po­ratism, and insti­tu­tion­al­ized tyranny. Deep down I know what I have come to learn, not what I have been pro­vided. My ideals com­pel me to be defi­ant, dis­obe­di­ent, and moral, con­trary to the whim and pres­sure of the man-made malig­nancy called gov­ern­ment. I do not favor, respect, obey, wor­ship, or respect man-made institutions.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 3

I think at this point we’re both merely restat­ing what we’ve already said for the most part. So let’s agree to dis­agree. Good duel. In clos­ing, let me just say, you must have grad­u­ated at the top of your class at the San­ford Brown Speed-typing University.

MY REPLY

Alrighty then. I don’t expect to change your mind. I have changed my own mind over the years through philo­soph­i­cal inquiries con­cern­ing my life, past, present, and future. You do make some valid points, or rather touch on some valid con­cerns, but you have to seri­ously ask your­self, how much of your rea­son­ing derives from within as opposed to being a reflec­tion of the real­ity you have been pre­sented with by oth­ers? Once you aban­don every­thing you think you believe or have been taught and adopt truth as you come to under­stand and crit­i­cally expe­ri­ence if for your­self, your per­spec­tive, like mine, may change. The world is not what it is. Nature is what it is. The world is what mankind makes it and peo­ple can lend them­selves to act­ing upon fear and igno­rance or upon knowl­edge and peace. If death is the worst thing we face then we’ll all be there some­day. Why spend the divine cap­i­tal of life on the Ponzi schemes put before you by usurpers, tyrants, fear mon­ger­ers, and despots?

Any­way, truce!

REPLY FROM FAMILY FRIEND

Wow..! you guy’s have alot of time on your hands to try to per­suade one another.. In the end of it all…is one going to agree with the other??? hmmmm!! enter­tain­ing it is…however, I do enjoy the rhetoric……please keep up the good work….I have to know “who gets the last word”???

Please don’t be mad at me, after all….I’m sure oth­ers think the same. Not try­ing to insti­gate what-so-ever…you both have good things to say…I do evjoy the read…

Your FRIEND Mike

MY REPLY

Hey Mike, thanks for the input. Gary and I have called a truce, or at least détente’. Appar­ently, there were some on the CC list who had much to say, just not the for­ti­tude to say it to those for whom it was intended. So, in order to spare some the pain of hav­ing to endure a debate, we have decided to cease with rhetor­i­cal hos­til­i­ties, for the time-being. I actu­ally raised the ire of some who took excep­tion with my chal­lenge to belief sys­tems based on coun­try, pol­i­tics, religion….etc. Of course, the knee-jerk response from such peo­ple is “If you don’t love this coun­try then why don’t you leave?” I have yet to find a way to emo­tion­ally attach myself to a un-natural thing called a coun­try. I don’t know if I am sup­posed to love the grass, dirt, build­ings, air, peo­ple, politi­cians….. It is very unclear to me. If it means that I am sup­posed to con­form my mind to accept the con­structs, real­i­ties, fan­tasies, and super­sti­tions of oth­ers then I am afraid that is not possible.

You have to ask your­self, at what point do you find your­self in this coun­try, and when does a love for it attach? Is it after the first date; dur­ing heavy pet­ting, or after inter­course (where the govt. has its way with you)? I believe it is when other peo­ple cre­ate that real­ity and con­script your mind in adopt­ing it; lest one be ostra­cized by their igno­rant peers. Do you think Helen Keller believed her­self to be in Amer­ica, or just a woman try­ing to inter­pret a nat­ural world with the senses pro­vided her by her Cre­ator? I posit this; that there is much we have come to believe, not by expe­ri­ence or inves­ti­ga­tion, but by hearsay and cus­tom. Chil­dren are among the most intel­lec­tu­ally hon­est crea­tures because they can directly chal­lenge com­mands for obe­di­ence by ask­ing, “why?” Many peo­ple can­not rea­son, even to them­selves, “why” we do what we do, believe what we believe, obey what we are commanded….etc. I don’t want to face my mor­tal­ity hav­ing to rec­on­cile why I lived and acted under the direc­tion and demands of oth­ers, and not under the dic­tates of my own con­science which my Cre­ator has provided.

Think about it. Take it easy home boy.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 4

WHEN A SOLDIER COMES HOME…..

When a sol­dier comes home, he finds it hard to lis­ten to his son whine about being bored.

…to keep a straight face when peo­ple com­plain about potholes.

…to be tol­er­ant of peo­ple who com­plain about the has­sle of get­ting ready for work.

….to be under­stand­ing when a co-worker com­plains about a bad night’s sleep.

…..to be silent when peo­ple pray to God for a new car.

….to con­trol his panic when his wife tells him he needs to drive slower.

….to be com­pas­sion­ate when a busi­ness­man expresses a fear of flying.

…..to keep from laugh­ing when anx­ious par­ents say

they’re afraid to send their kids off to sum­mer camp.

…..to keep from ridi­cul­ing some­one who com­plains about hot weather.

…..to con­trol his frus­tra­tion when a col­league gripes about his cof­fee being cold.

…..to remain calm when his daugh­ter com­plains about hav­ing to walk the dog.

….to be civil to peo­ple who com­plain about their jobs.

….to just walk away when some­one says they only get two weeks of vaca­tion a year.

…. to be for­giv­ing when some­one says how hard it is to have a new baby in the house.

The only thing harder than being a Sol­dier, Sailor, Air­man or Marine….

…is lov­ing one.

MY REPLY

When a man real­izes he has made a ter­ri­ble mistake…..

He will scour the inter­net for a friendly coun­try to pro­vide him polit­i­cal asy­lum when he decides to stop killing for other men.

The mag­ni­tude of his destruc­tion will res­onate in his con­science, call­ing him­self a “destroyer”.

He will deny the insan­ity of his sur­round­ings and pre­tend that the world he has con­scripted him­self to is “acceptable”.

He will appear out­wardly at peace, while see­ing the faces and smelling the scorched flesh of his vic­tims in his sleep.

He will pray to his God for the strength to do all those things he knows God would not allow him to do.

He will view the world through the spec­trums pro­vided by instru­ments of death, and in doing so view all of human­ity as a threat to his power.

He will even fail to rec­og­nize the con­se­quences of his actions when they strike his own companions.

He will don the cos­tumes of his earthly cre­ator, adopt its rea­son­ing, assim­i­late into its cul­ture, and act upon its com­mand like a mass-produced automaton.

He will, with arro­gance and threats, present him­self before the van­quished inhab­i­tants and assert his mech­a­nized and amoral superiority.

He will feign com­pas­sion, con­trive empa­thy, and project con­cern for oth­ers, not all, but will never real­ize such emo­tions, hon­estly evoked, have been sup­pressed and erased from his psyche.

Will stand vig­i­lant over stark, des­o­late, and ruined lands with­out a mod­icum of under­stand­ing or com­pre­hen­sion, but merely because he was so ordered.

Will bat­tle, with futil­ity, his assail­ing con­science and rue the day when he will be held to account for his actions.

Will deny his own rea­son, and instead use lev­ity to desen­si­tize him­self to the hor­rors he embraces.

Will for­sake his own to be able to serve other men.

Will stand sur­rounded with the trap­pings of insan­ity, mired in denial, and turn his anger for him­self against others.

May ulti­mately sub­sti­tute a piece of cloth, pomp, and glory for his earthly pres­ence so that his loved ones can seek pro­tec­tion, guid­ance, and joy from insult­ing, inan­i­mate objects.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 3

Mark, how can you pur­port to know how these brave sol­diers will be judged?

“He will feign com­pas­sion, con­trive empa­thy, and project con­cern for oth­ers”… ?? You know for a fact the sol­diers do this? So all these guys are “phoneys”?..

Regard­less of whether or not you believe we should be there, or whether you think what we’re doing there is moral or legal, our men in women in uni­form over­threw a bru­tal dic­ta­tor who butchered, gassed, raped, and cut the tongues out of hun­dreds of thou­sands of inno­cent peo­ple, some­times feed­ing them through wood chip­pers, and buried them in mass graves. Our troops have now built schools, infra­struc­ture, and hos­pi­tals. They’re not over there tar­get­ing inno­cent civil­ians as Sad­dam did. They’re going after ter­ror­ists and insur­gents who would like to see the Baathist gov­ern­ment restored, which was respon­si­ble for all the afore­men­tioned atroc­i­ties. Based on a human­i­tar­ian level alone, I think God will more likely judge our troops very mer­ci­fully, and look upon them with favor. They’re look­ing after our broth­ers and sis­ters, as God com­manded us to do.

MY REPLY

If peo­ple want to engage in assign­ing human attrib­utes to an insti­tu­tion, the mil­i­tary, and to a make-believe role designed to OBEY other men with­out ques­tion, sol­diers, then I will make such judg­ments upon those arti­fi­cial con­trivances. How­ever, if a human being does some good, regard­less of what type of cos­tume they are wear­ing or what they may call them­selves, then I will inter­pret that within the realm of human deeds. No, sol­diers will not be judged, peo­ple will be judged. God did not cre­ate sol­diers. Gov­ern­ments cre­ate sol­diers. And like slaves, some both vol­un­tar­ily and invol­un­tar­ily, are bound to serve earthly mas­ters until the time they come to under­stand they are not serv­ing their Cre­ator. The tak­ing of lives, regard­less of the num­ber of smiles, hugs, and joy, is not jus­ti­fied. Who is any­one to decide that the lives not taken are any more viable than the lives lost?

I made my state­ments based on con­ver­sa­tions I have had with peo­ple in the mil­i­tary who regret and are ashamed of what they’ve done. I can jus­tify killing any­one if I can find a few to say, “But he is a swell guy”? And despite what gov­ern­ments do their peo­ple, remem­ber, our gov­ern­ment has much blood on its hands for being a will­ing accom­plice in much of the hor­ror and the atroc­i­ties. Men who fol­low other men are not absolved of the con­se­quences for their actions because it was their “job” or “duty”. And like many who are now turn­ing to sui­cide, drugs, alco­hol, and other behav­ioral forms of self-punishment, some are com­ing to wres­tle with the sig­nif­i­cance of their moral abdi­ca­tion to evil, power-hungry men.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 4

Mark,
I’ve spent the last hour being pissed off at you, and then I got to think­ing that I am in fact the one I need to be pissed off at. I should not have thought for one minute that you would be sen­si­tive to anyone’s expe­ri­ence but your own. I basi­cally opened Dan and thou­sands of other peo­ple who, believed in the prin­ci­ples of this coun­try, that allow you the right to express your opin­ions. The insults and degra­da­tion, that you have seen fit to impose on a group of peo­ple, who sac­ri­ficed, and pro­vided you with the priv­i­lege to express your views. I am also extremely sorry for pro­vid­ing you with a forum, to express your opin­ions to friends and fam­ily who also will be upset.
I am sorry I have passed on the e-mail that started this, I will in fact make sure that your e-mail address is deleted from my con­tacts, and hope you will do the same with mine and Dan’s.
I am sorry that I chose to include your Mom and Dad in this, I would hope they would not share your opin­ion, but if they do there are peo­ple who died so that they could. I did not want to hurt their feel­ings.
One last thing you have really got to get over the idea that God needs you as a mouth piece, their are peo­ple who do a much bet­ter job of spread­ing His word.

MY REPLY

I did not avoid you. I was in a meet­ing when the phone rang. I also felt it best not to exac­er­bate the sit­u­a­tion and put myself in a posi­tion of engag­ing in an emo­tion­ally charged debate, or argu­ment, where things that were not meant were said. I owe apolo­gies to nobody, because I insulted nobody. If I express an opin­ion about an insti­tu­tion that does noth­ing to another human being, unless they con­sider them­selves a prod­uct of that insti­tu­tion, then they make them­selves the object of my com­men­tary. This gov­ern­ment, the mil­i­tary, or any other thing has given me noth­ing. Every­thing I have comes from my Cre­ator. I owe noth­ing to any­body. I choose to not serve any­body. I did not tar­get Dan, or any­body else, with my com­ments. I am not respon­si­ble for the way Dan feels in response to my opin­ions. I am under no oblig­a­tion to curb my tongue because some­one might be offended. I am not ashamed of my opin­ions because I believe I have the inter­ests of human­ity, peace, and jus­tice at heart. There are alter­na­tives to what peo­ple choose to con­struct their par­tic­u­lar real­i­ties. I find noth­ing noble or hon­or­able in fol­low­ing other men, despite what one’s inten­tions may be. If peo­ple are that right­eous and just then they would take the ini­tia­tive upon them­selves to stand defi­ant against tyranny.

Nobody has died for me. Nobody has died for my rights. Nobody has died for my free­dom. They have died for other men who told them they were dying for these things, but noth­ing they have done has resulted in a free world or coun­try. Sure, Dan may have pulled his bud­dies out of a bombed build­ing in a for­eign land, but why should peo­ple accept an armed mil­i­tary pres­ence in their land? We were the out­siders. It is not a jus­ti­fi­ca­tion, it is a pos­si­ble expla­na­tion. If I stand in the mid­dle of the high­way in hopes of try­ing to stop speed­ing because my friends were killed in a traf­fic acci­dent caused by speed­ers and I am killed by a bus, it is the bus which is at fault or me for putting myself in that sit­u­a­tion? My Cre­ator has pro­vided me with every­thing and I refuse to sub­mit to any notion that I owe any­body anything.

I also do not pur­port to be a mouth­piece for God. Other peo­ple adorn them­selves with right­eous­ness, moral­ity, and jus­tice, claim­ing such is the man­date of God, but the things they do under those pre­tenses is a result of men fol­low­ing other men as opposed to their con­science. I merely point out the lunacy of serv­ing two mas­ters; one, a fal­li­ble, con­niv­ing, power-hungry, con­trol­ling, manip­u­la­tive crea­ture, man; and one a divine pur­veyor of con­science, rea­son, nature, and jus­tice, God. There is no log­i­cal jus­ti­fi­ca­tion for engag­ing in acts com­manded by the one, and jus­ti­fied by the other. Peo­ple, not insti­tu­tions, gov­ern­ments, or asso­ci­a­tions, are respon­si­ble for their own moral­ity and spir­i­tu­al­ity. Once one becomes a mem­ber of any­thing else they sur­ren­der a piece of their moral­ity and con­science in favor of adopt­ing a col­lec­tive con­scious­ness that has been manip­u­lated for the pur­poses of con­trol and conformity.

I don’t get upset when you wave the flag, impugn my rea­son­ing, favor idol­a­try (wor­ship­ing man-made insti­tu­tions), or send me your opin­ion in email. I used to be in such a place, and after abol­ish­ing vir­tu­ally every­thing I was taught or told to believe or accept, and ques­tioned every­thing on its mer­its, I real­ized I did not need to believe in such things to live my life in a way that makes me ulti­mately account­able and respon­si­ble for my actions. I have looked inside and found many unpleas­ant things that have been tossed onto the trash heap. I have con­tem­plated the time where I will be draw­ing my last breath and will not suf­fer anguish or regret in hav­ing to rec­on­cile my hav­ing trans­gressed upon oth­ers by adopt­ing the will of peo­ple who could not pro­vide me with one more heart­beat with which to beg for mercy. I will live, and die, on my own terms, at my own peril, and under the restric­tions and lib­er­ties pro­vided me by way of my birth and through my Cre­ator, to whom I am solely and ulti­mately account­able. Noth­ing else in this world can move me or com­pel me in any way not of my own voli­tion. I am in a dif­fer­ent place than you, and many, and I will not apol­o­gize or be hum­bled for hav­ing not inten­tion­ally caused harm to any­one, or for speak­ing a mes­sage that fos­ters peace, rea­son, and conscience.

I love you. I would pre­fer you to under­stand me, but that is not a requisite.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 4

Grandio­seIn­di­vid­u­als with grandiose delu­sional dis­or­der have an over-inflated sense of self-worth. Their delu­sions cen­ter on their own impor­tance, such as believ­ing that they have done or cre­ated some­thing of extreme value or have a “spe­cial mis­sion.
REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 4

What are Delu­sions of Grandeur?

In the ver­nac­u­lar, the term usu­ally describes peo­ple who are dis­liked dic­ta­tors of coun­tries, promi­nent busi­ness­men, or celebri­ties, since they are often prone to being self­ish and ego­tis­ti­cal. How­ever, this sort of pop­u­lar atten­tion down­plays the seri­ous­ness of an actual med­ical diag­no­sis where symp­toms are com­mon in men­tally ill per­sons.
Also gen­er­ally known as mega­lo­ma­nia, delu­sions of grandeur is a term famil­iar to psy­cho­log­i­cal dis­course. They are known as the man­i­fes­ta­tions of a psy­chopatho­log­i­cal con­di­tion in which a per­son has delu­sional fan­tasies of power, wealth, and omnipo­tence, thus the term delu­sions of grandeur. Indi­vid­u­als may also bear an obses­sion with grandiose or extrav­a­gant things or actions. Despite evi­dence to the con­trary, they may still be con­vinced of these false impres­sions.
In clin­i­cal terms, delu­sions of grandeur are real delu­sional symp­toms, which are irra­tional and inap­pro­pri­ate beliefs. Often found in patients with vary­ing degrees of either demen­tia, psy­chotic or depres­sive dis­or­ders, they firmly pos­sess unre­al­is­tic beliefs that may even­tu­ally harm them phys­i­cally, men­tally, or emo­tion­ally.
Drug intox­i­ca­tion and drug addic­tion may also con­tribute to episodes of delu­sions of grandeur, espe­cially when sub­ject to the influ­ence of mar­i­juana or speed. This is dan­ger­ous because users who are high may believe they have pow­ers that will enable them to per­form dan­ger­ous feats that any nor­mal human being would not suc­ceed in doing, like fly­ing off tall build­ings or stop­ping an oncom­ing train with one hand. Delu­sions of grandeur could actu­ally result in seri­ous injuries or even death.
Like other clin­i­cal terms such as “anti-social” or “men­tally retarded,” the term “delu­sions of grandeur” is often used non-technically and incor­rectly. While this behav­ior may down­play the neg­a­tive social con­no­ta­tions of the phrase, it may mask sit­u­a­tions in which actual delu­sions of grandeur bear an actual psy­chopatho­log­i­cal threat to a person’s health.

REPLY FROM FAMILY MEMBER NUMBER 5

pat, some­times peo­ple for­get to read the bible and learn what war is all about. it is a spir­i­tual war­fare that tears human­ity apart. the ugli­est war ever fought was on the cross! as you know the Good Guy won. because God is a Holy God and can not even look at any­thing that is unholy. God only brings good­ness to things even things the prince of dark­ness does to destroy us. because of evil we have ill­ness, wars, mur­ders, rapes, chil­dren killing chil­dren and slave trade of young girls for the lusty deranged plea­sure seeker. Christ died for all of us sin­ners, includ­ing mark , so that we can go to the per­fect place when we go home to heaven, see you there one day, love and blessimgs carole

SUMMARY

Finally, after decid­ing to pur­sue point­less argu­ments with peo­ple who do not lis­ten, I decided to let it go. I received a phone call one evening from the hus­band of one of the fam­ily mem­bers who had served in the mil­i­tary and was sup­pos­edly in Beirut when the Marine bar­racks were bombed. He said he had to pull his bud­dies bod­ies from the rub­ble; which I touched on in one of the emails. He asked to be removed from my email list, which he was not on, but merely a recip­i­ent by way of my reply­ing to all. I said no prob­lem to that request, and he went on to say that he respected my right to say what I want (gee, thanks) and that he fought to give me the priv­i­leges I enjoy. What! I could tell he had been drink­ing and I thought it best not to pro­voke an obvi­ous emo­tion­ally charged issue, so I let it go. As I have said, nobody; sol­dier, police, politi­cian,…. gives me ANY rights. I was born with all my rights. Again, it was a dead end to argue with such emo­tion and the rest is history.